Ep #290: Getting Anchored with Mary Angione

This is Feminist Wellness, and I’m your host, Nurse Practitioner, Functional Medicine expert, and life coach Victoria Albina. I’ll show you how to get unstuck, drop the anxiety, perfectionism, and codependency so you can live from your beautiful heart. Welcome, my love, let’s get started.

Hello, hello, my love. I hope this finds you doing so well. So you're listening to the Feminist Wellness podcast, you're showing up, you're devouring all this stuff about regulating your nervous system, feeling your feelings, cultivating safety, knowing your limits, setting boundaries, speaking your truth, all of it.

And it all sounds really exciting, but there may be a part of you, as there was a part of me, that's like, “Hey, what's on the other side of all of this? Because all this work, I trust and believe in this sort of inherent way that it's going to lead to somewhere great, but where exactly are we going? What's it going to look like, feel like, taste like, be like? Because I want to know. Because this part sucks.”

And it's true, right? Like, yo, learning to sit with righteous, sacred anger? It's not cozy, especially when you've been socialized as a girl in this culture, right? In this Western setting in which many of us find ourselves where we're told not to be angry. “It's unbecoming. It's not the way good girls experience life,” right?

So learning to feel the feels can be really challenging. Learning to sit with the discomfort is uncomfortable. I mean, legit, by design. And so I think it's really fair to be, “What does this look like? I want to model. I want to be able to see what the other side of emotional outsourcing looks like for others. Where did they start? Where did they get to? And what was the journey like for them?”

As a way to sort of not just benchmark, but help us ideate and dream and conceive of this new future we know we want, but don't really know what the other side looks like. And so, to that end, it is with, as always, great delight, privilege, honor, that I will be sharing with you, starting today and several times over the coming months, the stories of some folks who've gone through my six-month program, Anchored: Overcoming Codependency.

If you're new to the show and you've not heard of Anchored, it's a program where we combine somatics, or body-based practices, nervous system regeneration, rewiring, restructuring, regulating work, holding space to feel all of our big feelings, along with mindset work… Because the intellect matters, thinking matters, our mindset matters. It's not just body, but it's also not just mind, right? It's all of it.

And we combine it with breath work, because breath work is dope. And we dance a ton, because how incredibly lucky are we to have human bodies? Let us experience joy in the collective. Towards the goal of living lives, authentic lives we love. Where we can ride the waves of sadness, sorrow, distress, disappointment, frustration, anger, all of it alongside the joy, yeah?

And so we can build neural grooves that allow us to support ourselves, to resource ourselves, to show up for ourselves and our communities, without the old habits of emotional outsourcing, perfectionism, people-pleasing codependency that keep us stuck in that hierarchical, really painful chronic habit of sourcing our sense of safety, worth, value, and belonging from everyone and everything outside of ourselves to our own detriment.

So instead, we can live more interdependently. This is what we do in Anchored. Oh my goodness, is it a blast. And the transformation that the people, the women of Anchored go through are just absolutely mind-blowing. And so I am thrilled to share their stories with you, in the hopes that you can see yourself in the before and the during and can dream towards that after, yeah?

And that during, I mean, we're all in the during, right? What even is “after”? But I think you get my point. I no longer experience myself as emotional outsourcing on the regular. And wow, I would not have thought that a decade ago. I would not have thought that when I was in an abusive marriage, I would not have thought that I would be here where I am living in such an amazing way.

So I would not have had a model to live towards. And I know that today's very special guest will be a beautiful model for you. So without further ado, here we go.

Victoria Albina: Mary, hello.

Mary: Hello.

Victoria:  Hello. I'm so delighted to be here with you. Thank you.

Mary: You're welcome. I'm excited to be here.

Victoria:  Yay. Would you tell the good people your name and where you live, sharing a land acknowledgement if you know whose land you're on?

Mary: Sure. My name is Mary Angione, and I live in the Massachusetts area in Norwood, just outside of Boston, in the Wampanoag Territory.

Victoria:  Beautiful. So Mary, what lights you up? What are you most passionate about?

Mary: I'm passionate about teaching and learning, especially about mind/body stuff. And I'm passionate about my family and raising great kids. And yeah, that feels like it kind of fills my life right now.

Victoria:  That's so beautiful. I know you're also passionate about coaching, which is something you've recently brought into your world.

Mary: Yeah, that's a developing interest. I've been a teacher for a long time. I teach chemistry, and I've been teaching a very unique elective called Body and Mind. And we do a lot of body/mind science, immune system, nervous system, circadian rhythms, epigenetics, microbiome; lots of great stuff.

And then we do a lot of practice. So yoga, meditation, tai chi. I've had parents at back-to-school nights say, “I wish I could take a class like this.” And I've been thinking maybe I could create something, or maybe I could do my own coaching with adults.

So the winds of transition were blowing for me as I was listening to your podcast and was one of the reasons that I hopped into Anchored.

Victoria:  Yay. Well, so that's a great segue. So you were recently in Anchored. Why did you decide to join? What interested you about the program and doing this work?

Mary: I think it was an interest in having a greater sense of ease, especially in transition and generally in life. So working full time, raising kids, it's a lot on one's nervous system. And I remember talking with you about coming in. And I can get very up in my head during the day, so I think that translates to getting very up into that stress, sympathetic response.

And I can get back into my body, I've long done tai chi and yoga and meditation. But it felt like I couldn't stay with myself during the day. And then I don't have hours of recovery time in the afternoon anymore because I come home to my kids, right?

So yeah, I was looking to have a sense of being able to stay with myself during the day, and parlance of what you talk about, it's like staying in ventral vagal. And for me that has, as I get better at that, there is a greater sense of ease in the day. I'm more creative. I sort of meet the moment differently. There's less forcing of things. I could give you an example.

Victoria:  I'd love an example. Examples are the best.

Mary: So my four-year-old likes to pretend to hatch every morning into a different animal. It's very cute. He often hatches into things that don't technically hatch, but we're okay with it. It's suspension of disbelief. So the other day he hatches into a fish, and then he gets out of his bunk bed and literally proceeded to belly crawl to the bathroom and back; which is adorable and takes a long time.

So he gets back to the room and he's busy being a fish. If I get all up into my head, it's like, “Okay, it's time to put your shorts on. Please put your shorts on. You need to put your shorts on. Put your shorts on.” He's this little guy, living his best life being a fish, knowing how to be in the moment.

And for me, when I'm more in the calmer spot, I have a better grip on what's happening in my head. I can just kind of be like, “Hey, little fishy, why don't you show me how you swim into your shorts?” And then he's like, “Okay.” It reminds me of, I've never done improv, but that, yes.

And I'm better able to roll with things and kind of direct the current, or go with the current than when I'm just in, “I have to get this done and I have to get that done and then I have to get the next thing done.” And then before I know it, I'm stressed out. No one else around me is having any fun either.

Victoria:  Yeah, for sure. And I love that example, because one of the things I often hear from folks is, “If I don't go into sympathetic, if I don't go into fight or flight, if I don't start yelling at the kids or start rushing them, or if I stay calm and chill and in ventral and present in myself, nothing's going to get done around here.”

And that, “Let me see you swim into your shorts, little fishy,” that's such a great example of you staying present with him, intentional with him, loving with him. Keeping your nervous system regulated so it can co-regulate with his nervous system. But also, let's be practical and real, right?

You're a scientist, I'm a nurse. You're also a teacher, right? We are practical animals, and sometimes the fishes need to put their shorts on and get on the bus. But we can do it from love and from connection instead of from shutting down their joy.

Mary: Also my mind will tell me we have to be somewhere on time. And in this particular case, it's camp. So actually we don't. I mean, I want alone time, I really do, but it's actually not urgent. And I also feel like, what's been great, is continuing to develop the sense of that I trust myself. “We're going to get his shorts on somehow, as best as possible. We'll get out of the house on time.” This kind of, ‘we can do this.’

Victoria:  I love that. I feel like I have so little access to “we can do this” when I let myself go into unbridled sympathetic, or obviously dorsal collapse, where it's like, “There's no way we can do this.”

Mary: Yes. Very different place.

Victoria:  Yeah. I feel like you're modelling non-urgent living.

Mary: Trying. It's getting better.

Victoria:  Yeah. So what else? What were you struggling with that led you to say, “I want to join Anchored. I want to spend six months with this little weirdo?”

Mary: Who calls me a little ravioli.

Victoria:  You are. You are a tender ravioli, Mary. It's the truth.

Mary: Well, I think that's another thing that occurred to me. Confidencewise, I've long been very confident intellectually, in the classroom and that sort of thing. But it was confidence with those sorts of more vulnerable parts.

And recognizing if I want to work with people, maybe one-on-one or whatever I decide to do, it matters that I'd be able to be kind of heart forward, right? I meet the world differently that way. People meet me differently that way. And that just takes a certain confidence in those more tender parts.

The inner child work was really great because it was like kind of falling in love with me at 5-8 years old and thinking of myself as I see my kids. And then, recognizing that a lot of time, when I'm getting anxious or nervous or worried, that it's just 5-8-year-old me who's worried about someone else being displeased or upset of me getting in trouble, or of somebody being mean.

And it was this, “Okay, well, I am an adult now and I'm much more resourced. So I could just take a moment and let my nervous system settle and remember that I'm not 5-8 years old anymore.” And then it started to show up in meditation. Images of me giving that little girl a hug, who used to like climb trees and swing off the garage roof. That's been helpful. It's just a recognition of that.

And then I was looking for some tools in transitioning because I'm thinking about making kind of a big career move. I've been teaching for a very long time. I made a big change in my 20s from kind of corporate life to deciding to teach. And I knew at the time, like kind of deep in my soul, that it's what I wanted to do, needed to do, and was going to do.

But it was really stressful. I literally got sick to my stomach the day that I returned my company car. It was just hard on me physically and emotionally. And so I was looking for a way to move my mind and my nervous system to a place where I could get to a different feeling, or a sense of what I could do or what was possible without so much stress and pain about the whole thing.

So the bridge thought work actually was really cool for me.

Victoria:  Yeah. Can you share with folks what that is? I haven't done a podcast on bridge thoughts; I should. It's a really useful tool.

Mary: It's really good.

Victoria:  Yeah, it's really good.

Mary: So I agree with this whole premise that your thoughts create your feelings. And I also believe that the state your nervous system is in… Your feelings will create your thoughts, right?

Victoria:  A hundred percent.

Mary: So in thinking about making a career move, the thought that I've been having a lot, or was having a lot was, “I'm crazy.” There were all these satellite thoughts related to why that would be the case. So okay, I'd like to get to this thought that I could have a successful business. But I was pretty clear that I didn't believe that yet.

And I know sometimes you practice things and you believe it, but my system was making faces at me. So the bridge thought is like finding a thought in between. And so I literally drew myself a picture. I drew this bridge… that I later thought about, “That's a scary looking bridge.” It was like one of those bridges that goes over a water, or that a train passes really high with no railings. But that's what I drew.

And then, in the middle, it was me. And you gave me this nice little nugget, which was, “I'm open to the possibility of…” I'm like, “Okay, I can have that thought, I'm open to the possibility that I could have a successful business.” It just helped being like, “Okay, I don't have to go from here to here today. I could just live here and see what shows up.”

And it was cool that I drew it because then I was like, “Okay, well, even if it doesn't happen, I'm not going to plunge to my death off of this bridge,” this is a very dangerous looking bridge, “so maybe I could imagine it more like one of those bridges going over the muck on a trail. If I fall off, I get muddy. But I'm not dead.”

Victoria:  I love that. Yeah, lowering the consequences. Because that helps bring us out of sympathetic, of course, and into ventral vagal with ourselves and with the possibility of the new thought. And yeah, I think bridge thoughts are such a beautiful gift because they are so much more aligned with the way our nervous systems actually work.

And one of the ways I see thought work, or folks using thought work, sort of against themselves is by picking a new thought and then deciding they're going to do it and then beating themselves up if they have any thought other than that thought. We need to stop doing that to ourselves. It's not loving. It's not compassionate. It's not kind. It's not curious. And it's not science, right?

Mary: It doesn't give your system time to develop that window of capacity, “window of dignity”, as you call it. To just get your system adjusted to a different place, that's a little bit moving towards the other thing; without having to expect that you have to take a giant flying leap and land there safely right away.

Victoria:  Totally. I mean, I think it aligns so well with something we talk about in Anchored, that I talk about here on the show a lot, too, which is that healing isn't linear. And that you may step into belief around a new thought for some period of time. And then that old cassette tape comes up and it's like, “Oh, no, you don't.”

We have to hold space for that, for the fact that this is a process. It is slow and steady work to completely rewire a brain and a body.

Mary: Which is what's nice about working with a group over six months. You get to see other people in their process, and be in your own, and just feel supported in that period of time. It doesn't feel urgent. Like ‘I have to have this done in a month.” It's like, “Okay, six months, that's a good time to move my thinking.”.

Victoria:  So you mentioned the group. Can you talk about what it was like to be in the group? What it was like to be coached in a group? People get really nervous about that. From our thought habits, we can be very protective of our vulnerability and our tender underbelly. And so people are like, “But who are these strangers who will hear my deepest darkest?”

I'd love to hear how that was for you.

Mary: It was a really wonderful group of other women. I think you attract people who are very genuine, very authentic, interested in whatever brings them to Anchored. And you create a great space for that, which is a real talent in the coach.

It was webinar style most of the time. So if someone wanted to be coached, they would either let you know in advance or raise their hand. And you were always double checking that people still wanted to be coached. And then they were brought up.

So people are working one on one, which was really nice because it's like I was able to witness what was happening. But I think the person being coached, or when I was being coached, I didn't feel distracted by other faces. I could sort of just forget that other people were there. And I didn't have to be coached until I felt comfortable in the group.

And then we had a Slack community. So that was fun, too, because we could discuss things that we'd noticed or… We had a music channel, which was really great for me. Unexpectedly, I really got into listening to particular songs. Later on, it was fun to do some whole group… Everybody who wanted to come up… and just do some whole group conversations about topics that were of interest to the group. It was a great way to do it.

I feel like there's things that I wasn't thinking about for myself, but I recognized when someone else brings up or wants coaching on, and then can see how it applies to me. And because I'm off screen and just listening or listening to a recording, if I wasn't there live, that I could just be with my own reaction to, or the things that it brought up for me about how it might relate to me.

Victoria:  Yeah. I get why people are scared at first, or nervous or worried. But to your point, it is just such a group of kind, lovely, genuine, authentic tenderonis. It's tenderoni, right? It really is just a group of sweet, soft underbellies who just want to learn how to love themselves and really support everyone else.

Yeah. I can think of some specific times when really challenging things came up for members of the community and everyone was just there for them. We're probably thinking of the same things, but yeah.

Mary: Well, there's a lot of emotion that can come up, stuff that gets trapped in the body and can be hard to release. And to be around people who are just willing to be with it and kind of absorb it, it helps take it away. You're doing the coaching. Nobody else is trying to fix or solve anything for anybody. Everyone else is just here for you, to listen. And lots of people in the chat were like, “I'm with you, witnessing you. I relate.” It was great. I'm going to miss the group.

Victoria: I know. Every time a group closes, it's just ugh, right? Because we love each other. Yeah. But you'll get invites to alumni breathwork, and a dance party coming up soon.

Mary: Oh, that's exciting. [crosstalk]

Victoria: Yeah, they’re so much fun. S much Paula Abdul. So much Gloria Estefan. So much vintage Prince. I mean, Lizzo, obviously.

Mary: Yeah, we're the same age range. So it's all of those tunes where I know the words and I don't know why I know the words, on the radio when I was a kid, and I know them all.

Victoria:  All of them. Yeah.

Mary: Yeah. I’m like, “What is this song?”

Victoria: You’re like, “Quiet now. Shh. This is a sacred time. This is the gospel according to CNC Music Factory. And I'm going to need silence for this.” Oh, my goodness. Good times. Yeah. I mean, I think that brings to mind how much fun we have in Anchored, you know?

Mary: It was a good time.

Victoria:  Yeah. We do some deep work. But we have a lot of fun.

Mary: It's nice to have that juxtaposed, right? That you can do deep work and it doesn't have to be super serious all the time. Or that actually there's an ease that comes with it when there's a little bit more playfulness with it. There's so much research on play; it's how mammals learn.

Victoria: It's true. It's true. It's true. And you and I love our research, don't we? Yeah, so what would you say the transformation was like for you before Anchored, when you were in the program, and now as an alum?

Mary: Well, yeah, I just feel like I'm kind of on my way. I think when I did the application and it was like, “Where would you be in a year?” I said I would be on sabbatical writing a book, which isn't quite it. But I'm taking a leave of absence from teaching. I've got a couple of clients that I'm coaching. And I’m starting to think about what a course might look like. That takes my work that I've done, with my body and mind class, and makes it accessible to adults. And I feel good about it.

I have moments when I'm nervous, but I'm not in sheer terror. I've had to work with my mindset too around money and that stuff to kind of give myself some time and space. That's a big deal for me, because I'm not in my 20s anymore. I have a family, and we have a mortgage and that stuff. So I've been doing some work there. But yeah, I just feel like it's going to be a great year.

And maybe I go back and teach some more, and maybe I don't. But I feel like I have the resources to explore something, do something creative for a while. Have an adventure. And what happens is what happens.

Victoria:  I love that. And what are the tools and skills from Anchored that you're leaning on now in this exciting new phase of your life, this new adventure?

Mary: Definitely the thought work. So writing it out; usually it's a whole bunch of thoughts that happen all at the same time. But if I start writing them out, there's usually one where I'm like, “Oh, yeah, that's the one that's driving the loop of activation.” And then having a chance to work with that one.

Like, what's a thought that serves me better? That I believe, that helps move me in the direction I'm trying to go. So thought work has been great. Also, just really being sensitive to what's happening in my nervous system and recognizing that even if something feels really urgent, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is. I can back off, in an email or a situation, whatever.

I can take some time to let myself settle and use some of the somatic tools we learn, some of my own practice and meditation or whatever, and then come back to the thing when my system is in a better spot to respond more creatively and more from the place that I want to. Because I recognize when I get all up and sympathetic, it's like I either blow something out of the water that's really not a big deal, or sometimes I miss things that are important, but smaller; both things.

So, yeah, that's been a big one for me. If something is really getting me activated, just taking the time to let myself settle and reminding myself that the adult is running the show and not my 5-8-year-old self. She can have a hug and just sit and watch. It's all good. Yeah, that's been helpful.

And then the other thing that showed up for me is just more regularly asking the question, “What do I want?” And then saying what I want. It's been great. A little hard to explain, I guess. I just gets busy with family and get into this thing where I'm doing everything that everybody needs and not stopping to ask myself, “Well, what do I want?”

And then reaching out to the family and being like, “Mama wants to go to the pool this afternoon. You played Minecraft all day yesterday. Today, we're going to go to the pool. We're going to have a good time because I want to go to the pool.”

Victoria: Yeah, I hear the pause button, which I think we learned in week six, seven, somewhere around there, pretty early. I always joke that we were not born with a pause button factory-installed from our codependent, perfectionist, and people-pleasing thinking. We jump in to save the day for everyone. And like you said, then we habitually, unintentionally, put our wants, needs and desires dead last.

Which I don't know what that created for you, I'd love to hear. But for me, it created an awful lot of resentment.

Mary: I would echo that. Yeah.

Victoria:  Resentment and a lot of feeling victimized in situations where I absolutely was not. Someone else just had a different want than I did, that I agreed to from that unintentional place.

Mary: And it will create thoughts for me that aren't really true. Like, “I never get to do what I want. I never get to do the ‘me’ thing.” And I'm not even asking myself what that is. I'm not even trying anymore.

Victoria:  Oh, I know. But it makes sense in our brain. Because we work so hard to mind read everyone else, how dare they not mind read for us?

Mary: I got myself a literal pause button.

Victoria:  Oh, my God, that's amazing.

Mary: Okay, actually it looks like one of those staple buttons. And if you have it on when you press it, it says, “Hell no,” in a whole bunch of different ways. “Hell no. Survey says, hell no.” And this was dealing with some stuff where I got emails or whatever. But then when I turn it off, I put on a sticker on the back and it says, “Later, yo.”

Victoria:  Oh, that's so fun. I have a similar pause button on my desk. I can't find it in this perfect moment, but I just have it right there to remind myself of what you said. No good comes from being in sympathetic when it's not warranted, right? If a bear is chasing you, please, please go to sympathetic.

But most of the time, coming back to ventral, in the safe and social part of the nervous system, we're going to get so much more done and with so much more love and peace and ease. And I love that you kept naming “responding versus reacting.” Quite the skill, eh?

Mary: But it was nice to have, with the button. I can't have a reaction in the moment. Just smack that sucker. And then it's like, “No, just back off for a little while, calm down.” But it was nice to have something to do in the moment to help drive off some of that stress urgency; complete the stress cycle in the moment.

Victoria: I was about to nerd on that, and say what you're doing there is processing out that motivation, that motion potential, that activation potential. Because sympathetic tells our bodies it's time to run. And so we often need to do something physical where we're pushing, where we're hitting the button, but we're doing something physical to complete that stress activation cycle. So that's so dope.

You said yo, which made me think of the 90s, so I get to say dope. Somebody needs to say “that's rad” pretty soon or we're going to get in trouble with the 90s patrol.

Mary: Yeah, I've been collecting the sayings for the last couple of decades teaching.

Victoria: I love that. Oh, yeah, totally.

Mary: So know I show up now like it's lit.

Victoria:  Oh, wow.

Mary: “Fire” is the new one.

Victoria:  Kids these days. That's so funny. I love it. “Teach” knows what's hip. I love it.

Mary: Can’t really use it, though, because it never sounds authentic.

Victoria:  Because you're not 15. I hear that. I get that.

Mary: I can do “cool” and “wicked” because it's my…

Victoria:  Oh, come on. Wicked is bread and butter. I love it. So, Mary, what would you say to someone who is having some nervousness or some trepidation about joining the program? Either the group aspect, not knowing what coaching is like, being scared to make change, to make the investment. All those things that come up for people when they're like, “Oh, do I do the big thing?”

Mary: Yeah, I think writing it out is really valuable, to just see it on paper and seeing if there's a thing or two that your body tells you, if a thing or two that's in your way. Filling out the application, in and of itself, was thought provoking, which I think is a great structure you have in place. And then chatting with you is really helpful.

There are some things you pointed out right there for me, about certain black-and-white thinking. You're talking about golden handcuffs or Les Mis. And I'm like, “Okay, right. There's definitely an in-between place for me.” So that was really helpful.

And then taking time after, if someone speaks with you. I needed a little time and you gave me lots of space. You checked in eventually, but you let me be in my process about it for a while. Which I needed to be, Which I think is fair. It's a big investment.

I think one of the thoughts that I eventually shared with you was I’d been poking around and listening to podcasts and checking things out. And this for me was… Finally Yoda came to mind, “There is no try. I'm either going to go for it or I'm not. I'm sort of tired of spinning my wheels about things. I'm ready to get stuck.”

So write it out. Fill out the application. Talk with you. And you're not going to force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. It's not your style. But I think people might worry about that. Like if they're filling out the application and talking to you, to be able to say no at that point might feel hard for some people. And you're totally open to a no.

Victoria:  Yeah. What I always tell folks, is to feel into their bodies about whether this is the right decision and whether it's the right time. I don't want anyone to join Anchored who doesn't want to be there, right? It's a community of people who are thrilled and delighted for the opportunity to be part of the community.

There's the uncertainty that comes from, again, our conditioning, our socialization. “I'm not worth it. Who am I to spend this time, this money, this energy on me? I should be focused on my kids.” Those stories, we can question all of that. But when your body is saying life needs to change, listening to that is the most important thing.

And joining, like you said, from a whole heart, that's all I ever want. And frankly, the work I do, when someone says no to me on a call I'm so thrilled for them. It's them standing in their power and saying, “This isn't the right thing for me. I'm not available to do the investment right now,” or whatever it is. But I literally cheer that on, I start clapping. That's what I feel in my tender heart, “Way to go. You could have just people pleased me right now, but you didn't.”

And that is so dope. We need to celebrate that so hard. Joining Anchored is amazing. Not joining Anchored is amazing. Whatever the best choice for you is, is the best choice. So, yeah. Cool. Cool, cool, cool.

And when you look at your life now, when you think about life after Anchored, are you happy you made this choice? Was this a good?

Mary: Yeah. My kids are going to go back to school and I'm going to be home alone. I'm kind of laying the foundation to have stuff to do and have some income. But I am so excited, because normally, right now, I'd already be back in, “Oh, I'm going to go back,” and starting to think about all the planning. So I just feel very free. I go back and forth between being excited and a little bit nervous and having my “oh shit” moments.

Victoria:  Yeah, that's normal and natural and human of you. So yeah, I'm really excited that you joined Anchored, that you got what you wanted and needed from the program. And I want to thank you again for being such an amazing part of the community and the collective, and sharing all your wisdom, your meditation, and everything that you brought to the table and to the community was such a gift. I really just want to thank you in this very public way. So thank you.

Mary: Thank you.

Victoria:  I am curious, where can the good people learn more about your meditation, your coaching? How can they follow you if you have a newsletter or anything? How can they connect?

Mary: Sure. So I have a website domain on which there will be things appearing shortly.

Victoria:  Delightful.

Mary: It's WholeHealthyWellness.com. And I can be reached at an email address at that name now. My first name, Mary_Angione@wholehealthywellness dot com. So, yeah, I'm working on that public front-facing stuff.

Victoria:  That's so exciting. And how wonderful to do all of that from ventral, right? Huge shift. Yay. Anything else you want the listeners to know before I release you back to the wild?

Mary: Yeah. One of the things I was going to say, and it may have come up sort of as I spoke, but it's just a sense of greater connection with other people. Especially with my kids, and one of them in particular, who just really seems to sense when I'm open and available or not. And I think his love language is much more physical, like coming in for the hugs. But he does it when I'm available and not when I'm in ‘I got to get shit done now’ mode.

That's been really meaningful to me, too. And not something that I necessarily had in mind. I mean, I think I did have the whole family dynamic in mind, with not wanting us to be super stressed out all the time. But that's been really valuable.

And when we were talking about the group stuff, and you applauding those, I also appreciated… I don't think I ever did it… but what you say about coaching, which is you get three “fuck you, Vic” per call.

Victoria:  Yeah. Come on, I cut to the quick when it's needed. Come on. I'm not shy.

Mary: No; you are that nurse efficiency.

Victoria:  Thank you.

Mary: Don't fuck around with the nurses. I learned that in the NICU. They were amazing, and they don't mess around.

Victoria:  We declined the opportunity to mess around. Thank you very much for the offer. But yeah, I love that. So you loved that there was the opportunity to say, “fuck you, Vic”?

Mary: Yeah. I didn't need to be happy about the coaching but it doesn’t mean it wasn't the thing that needed… kind of like I think about acupuncture. It’s the pressure point, it hurts a little sometimes. There's like a reaction to it. You know that.

Victoria: Yeah. I mean, the best coaching, I think, is the coaching that makes you say, “Fuck, that was terrible. I hated it. And it showed me exactly what I needed to know in a gentle, loving, kind, compassionate way. And then you helped me to get to the next thing.”

But the more real and truthful the coaching can be, I think the better. And I think this work for us, as coaches, is so incredibly vital, because we can only take our clients as deep as we are willing to go. So, yeah, here's to hearing more, “Fuck you, Vic.” And soon enough, “Fuck you, Mary.” So that's my dream for you.

Mary: Thank you.

Victoria:  Yeah, you're welcome. I love it. I love it. Well, thanks again for being here, Mary. I'm so grateful for your time. Thank you.

Mary: You're welcome. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Feminist Wellness. If you want to learn more all about somatics, what the heck that word means, and why it matters for your life, head on over to VictoriaAlbina.com/somaticswebinar for a free webinar all about it. Have a beautiful day, my darling, and I'll see you next week. Ciao.