Ep #192: Why Overcoming Codependency is VITAL for Coaches

This is Feminist Wellness, and I’m your host, Nurse Practitioner, Functional Medicine Expert, and life coach, Victoria Albina. I’ll show you how to get unstuck, drop the anxiety, perfectionism, and codependency so you can live from your beautiful heart. Welcome my love, let’s get started.

Hello, hello, my love. I hope this finds you doing so well. This week, I am sharing a conversation I recently had, with a group of coaches who’ve been through Anchored. I’m sharing this because the work we do in Anchored, using thought work, somatic or body-based practices, breathwork, and the work we do in community is so incredibly vital. Not just for own individual healing, but for the healing of the collective.

What’s been so incredible, over the years of running Anchored, is working with incredible life coaches who are drawn to this work. Again, not just because they want to make their own lives better. But because they can see so clearly that their codependent, perfectionist, and people-pleasing habits are effecting and impacting how they show up as coaches to support their clients.

Now, if you’re not a coach, the lessons here, the conversation here, is incredibly applicable to you, as well. Every single round we have physicians, there’s practitioners, PA’s (Physician Assistants), social workers, librarians. Other folks who are in the helping professions, teachers, tons of teachers. Folks who interact with humans and support humans.

And anytime you’re interacting with others, your own mindset, your own way of relating and thinking about the world, yourself, your nervous system, your somatic or bodily experience of being you, all of that comes to bear. There’s this old saying that I love, which is, “We can only take our clients as deep as we are willing to go.”

So, if you are still carrying around this mindset from codependent, perfectionist, and people-pleasing, habits. If you don’t know how to regulate your nervous system. If your inner children are driving the adult bus. If your adult mind is not managed with thought work, you’re going to bring all of that to interactions with your clients.

This also holds true if you’re any sort of entrepreneur. I mean, frankly, if you’re anyone in the world, right? The way you think about yourself, the way your body responds to the world, it impacts us. And so, I gathered this group of coaches to talk about how being in Anchored, being part of the community, learning all these vital skills, has helped to change the way they interact with their clients, and do their jobs, and support others in their growth.

And so, I’m really excited to share this with you, because there are so many lessons here. And because being part of Anchored, taking a deep look at our nervous system regulation and all the rest, has really changed their lives and their practice. I know it can do the same for you, which is so exciting.

So, without further ado, I am thrilled to share this conversation that I recently had with a group of coaches who’ve been part of Anchored, and are forever part of the Anchored familia. Who are forever my most beloved sailors on the seas of life, Anchored where they need to be, which is deeply within themselves.

So, here we go. I hope you enjoy the conversation.

Victoria Albina: Well, hello, my darlings. Thank you so much for being here with me. So glad to have you. If you would all be so kind as to introduce yourself, share your pronouns and tell the good people who you coach. You want to start us off, Tobi?

Tobi Fairley: Yeah, sure. So, I'm Tobi Fairley, my pronouns are she/her, and I coach creatives. I've been an interior designer for 23 years. And, a business coach and life coach for designers, for probably going on 15, now.

Victoria: That's amazing. Erika,

Erika: Well, my name is Erika. Pronouns are she/her, and I coach women that are stressed. Particularly helping people that feel stuck in survival mode, and helping them to move out of that and feel like they can thrive. So, they can create more joy, more connection, more love in their life using all the tools that coaching has. And, yoga. Because I'm also a Certified Yoga Teacher and Meditation Teacher. So, all these other tools just combined together. And, a podcaster.

Victoria: Yeah, I love your podcast. I've been on both of your podcasts, Tobi and Erika. That’s so fun. Jenn Baron.

Jenn Baron: Hi, Vic. I'm Jenn Baron, and I'm a Certified General Life Coach, and I help people get unstuck. I help people remember that they have the power to change their lives, and to thrive and not just survive. And I go by she/her.

Victoria: So important. Thank you. All right, Erin.

Erin: Hi. My name's Erin, and I go by she/ her, and I coach. And, I'm also nervous. I went into coach nurses, specifically. I founded my business, Triage Coaching, to help nurses learn new skills in order to end their toxic relationship with burnout, kind of this little problem. So, yeah, we're doing some of that.

Victoria: Yeah, that's fabulous. Thank you. So, I gathered you phenomenal women together today, because you were all in Anchored at some point. And, it was a delight to coach you there. And, because I wanted to talk about how the habits we talk about and work with, in Anchored and here on the show; codependency, perfectionism, and people-pleasing, show up in our coaching business and in our lives. I have so much to say about that.

But I know you do, too. So, I'll just turn it over to you. How are these habits impacting your life, and your business, and your coaching?

Tobi: I can jump in and talk about the creatives I work with. So, you know, it's such an interesting thing to create for a living. And people really struggle to put themselves out, put their work out. Put, you know, a price on what feels like themselves, instead of when it's really, you know, the things that they're creating.

And then, we know from socialization, there's kind of an inherent people-pleasing in anyone socialized as a woman to begin with, especially in the U.S. But in this creative field, I think we struggle with it even more. Because it feels like almost, we're, I don't know, like we owe something to the person we're creating for, the minute you start doing it for business. So, something that was fun, and was a hobby, and was a creative outlet, suddenly becomes this sort of obligation.

And that's probably true in a lot of different industries, but I really see it impacting creatives. So, I deal with a ton of people-pleasing, a lot of difficulty saying ‘no’ to people, a lot of lack of boundaries. Especially in the people that I work with that are things like interior designers. You know, clients calling them at night, texting them all the time, feeling like you have to respond.

There's so much of that, that this has been so instrumental. I have been, for years, living kind of from the neck up in my own life, and so, as always, anytime a coach does the work themselves first, which you have to do, it opens up so much possibility for what you can bring to your students. So, this was sort of a little bit of a selfish move for me, to learn to sort of vote my body back onto the island, as they say.

But then, giving me the skills to really help other people see how to use somatics, and breath work, and other things, in their own businesses. And, I think it also gives a different point of view. A lot of people have done yoga and meditation, and maybe it didn't really stick. So, one of the things I loved, is that you teach us so many different ways to go inward. And I love being able to bring all those tools to these creatives, so they can mix and match the ones that work for them.

Victoria: I love that. Thank you. Yeah, I super resonated with the undercharging. God, I did that for years, and from like that self-worth place of; who am I to charge what helps me pay the rent? Who am I? Right? And being a bad feminist, I'm not like, living my politics, but like, I can’t pay rent.

Tobi: Exactly. Emasculating people. And this understanding that it's not… People don't understand like,  that it's really a barter system. You're not taking someone's money and giving them something in return. Like, there's a story in the head that's like; if I take all this money from them, like this zero-sum game, there's a pot and the more I take, the less someone else has. And it does really bump up against people's value system, I think, too.

I mean, the whole idea of being willing to receive money, in and of itself, as a woman, as a creative, is so difficult. So, I know exactly what you mean.

Victoria: Has anyone else been in that?

Erika: I resonated a lot with the saying ‘no’. And like, taking anything, anywhere in the schedule. Like, I was working seven days a week, day and night, like, it didn't matter. If you were willing, I was willing. And so, as Tobi was saying, like, that was a challenge for me, for sure, before.

And now, I've reduced my schedule, and I've reduced my hours, and I work less and, you know, I have a calendar where people can pick. Before, I had a fully open calendar, they could pick basically anytime they wanted. Which is so silly, because you're not available all the time. You're not at your best all the time to be like, able to hold space, right?

So, knowing like, when am I actually available and at my best, as in giving myself the permission to show up and give only availabilities in those time slots, is quite different.

Victoria: Yeah, for sure.

Erika: I came to Anchor not thinking about the business. I didn't come to it thinking it would affect me as a coach or in my business in any way. In my like, side of being an intrapreneur. I really came at it from a place of being heartbroken.

And it was purely like, for myself. You know, coming off with like, the biggest heartbreak of my life and being like; this has to stop. I cannot live through one like this again. I need to understand my responsibility better in the situation. I need to understand, like, how can I make things happen differently next time.

And then, I got that. But I also got all sorts of things for my business, which I didn't expect, which is very interesting. And it did change me as a coach, even though that's not what I came for.

Victoria: I want to dive in more about how, but Jenn Baron, it looked like you wanted to talk.

Jenn: Yeah, one of the reasons that I was so drawn to Anchored, it was because I had started coaching a couple, husband and wife, and the wife was really interested. And, she had asked the husband to also do it. And I talked to both of them before, to make sure they were both on board.

But I didn't like how I was showing up to my calls with the husband. There wasn't as much buy-in from him, per se. And I just I felt like I wanted him to enjoy the sessions, and I wanted him to like me. And very quickly, I just thought; this is not going to work. I'm not serving him to my highest by coming to our calls with this energy.

So, in addition to wanting to work on codependency, people-pleasing, and perfectionism in my own life, I did not want to be bringing that energy to any of my coaching calls. I wanted to. compassionately and lovingly, push my client, and not feel like I was just tiptoeing around something, so that I didn't make him mad. Or, so that, you know, they continue to show up.

So, I really wanted to nip that stuff in the bud, before it grew. And through Anchored, it definitely got nipped.

Victoria: I love that. We’ve got nipped.

Erin: I feel like we've been neutered or something, in the best sort of way. I totally resonated also, with what Erika said. Like, I kind of came into this, you know, in a way, for selfish reasons, like just wanting to learn the tools. And also, thinking like; I just want to learn these tools, really, just to help my clients. I want to learn this just to help my clients. I want to help the nurses.

Little did I realize, how that would just affect kind of everywhere else. And obviously, hello, me as a coach. Like, if I'm teaching it, of course I need to learn it. I don't have to know every single aspect or have gone through every single thing. But to actually have understood the process and see it in myself, to be able to provide that, learning and teaching for somebody else was really, really powerful. Yeah.

Victoria: I love that. What about the embodiment piece? How has that changed you as a coach and as an entrepreneur?

Erin: As far as the somatics and doing that work? Oh my gosh, okay, that part, that's hands down, like the best gift I've ever, ever received from this program. That, specifically, is the reason I'm able to show up the way I want to show up. Because especially, like, as teachers, as nurses, health care providers, you know, we're really expected to show up all the time. Be giving 110% of the time.

And the fact that I felt like I couldn't charge my clients because; I'm a nurse, I have to give, I need to do what people need, and I need to be what they want. So, I'm just like a shapeshifter. But doing the somatics really helped me to just ground myself for myself, at that time, and then I could show up exactly as the client needed. But as myself, right? In the best way possible.

Which like, combining that was heavenly. I mean, really, it made such a big difference, because I couldn't try to just be happy with my clients. Especially when clients are telling me stories of sadness, and despair, and suffering. I'm not going to say I just want to be happy, because I don't want to be happy in the midst of their suffering. I want to be compassionate, and loving, and intentional. And so, doing the somatics really helped to bring that work together.

Victoria: That's so beautiful. Yeah, what about the rest of you?

Erika: For me, a shift about the somatics, is that I already had somatic practices within my yoga practice. And I was teaching yoga on one side, and I was coaching on the other side. And Anchored helped me kind of bridge the two together a little bit better. In the sense of, I was not doing a lot of somatic, live with the client. I was kind of giving them homework of practices within the realm of yoga.

And now it's like, the whole session is a back and forth between somatics, and a bit more, you know, let's talk it out or see where we're going with this, from an intellectual point. So, that has really changed. And I was not practicing necessarily, somatics for myself, to prepare me to coach, which I do now.

I had my yoga practice at its own schedule, and I had coaching clients during the day, and I didn't do anything particular to ground myself before. To really bring myself into that feeling of safety or whatever I feel like I need, which now I can do. And, I show up differently; I show up more present. I think I was spending a lot of time kind of half listening, and preparing to say the perfect thing they need next, and give them the perfect exercise next, and find the perfect homework they will need. I was there, but I was not fully, fully there with them in the moment.

So, of course, I'm sure people can feel that. Like, you're listening, but you're also not 100% holding space. Because you're in your head, wheels are turning about all the other things that will come in the next hour, right? So, now I'm able not to do that. I'm able to really be present and not overly prepare either, something I used to do, as well. And kind of, just, I'll know what I need in the moment and trust that a little bit more.

And so, it's a lot more of a like laid-back energy, and I'm more present, and I can be more compassionate, and more connected, and more supportive, as well. Because I'm more fully there. So, that's a big shift.

Victoria: God, that's huge, that presence. And I remember, too, early in my practice, and especially my medical practice, spending hours prepping for each call, and the perfect handout, the perfect homework. Which was so ego driven from that codependent place within me, that said; I'm not worthy unless... And, I'm not valid. And, they're not going to like me.

And I have to over prove. Which is so different from over delivering, right, with love and really giving from that emotional overflow. It was really like, trying to prove myself. Which I don't know about for youse, but led to me really overwhelming my clients. Right? Because I'd be like; and then this homework, and then this homework, right? Like, [inaudible], like, take a breath. Right?

Erika: Yeah, I would overwhelm myself and overwhelm the client, too. Yeah.

Victoria: Yeah. So, it’s a nice shift.

Jenn: Like Tobi said earlier, living from the neck up. And, I feel like that was just so much of my life. The thing about somatics, was you helped us, you helped me, to realize that it was safe and is safe to be more in my body, and appreciate whatever it's telling me. With that being the case, like Erika just said, I can be more present. I'm not, you know, trying to come up with the thing.

When I'm more present, my spidey senses can pick up on, you know, tiny little cues that I would miss if I'm focusing on me, and how am I doing? How am I showing up? Instead of focusing on them, and what's between the lines here? What am I, you know, maybe missing? It allows that presence because that safety has been created.

And so, I don't have to live and be just in my brain, and worry about how I'm showing up. I can be present with them. And then, it is all about them. Which is how I want it to be.

Victoria: I love that. What about for you, Tobi?

Tobi: Yes, so much overlap with what y’all are saying, for sure. I was gonna say, the not proving has been like the story of my life, I think. And even when I got certified as a life coach, back in 2017, and then master coach trading a year and a half ago, like the story was always like; stop talking so much. Let them come to the answer.

So, it's been this work that I've been doing, and this took it to a whole other level. For all those reasons that have just been said. Like, to get grounded I would notice that, you know, being an entrepreneur wearing different hats, like even, when you're really dialed in on my time, and time blocking, and the way I run my schedule. But at the same time, just shifting your energy from something that you're making decisions, and coming into a coaching call where you're holding space, are two completely different energies.

And I was never really noticing, until I was like in the middle of a call or at the end of it, and I was thinking; you know, wow, I really was aggressive there. I was really like y’all, like, kind of overwhelming the client; do all these things. And it's because it was coming out of the energy from the thing I had been doing before; make decisions, lead people, get stuff done, check off the list.

And that energy does not work well in a coaching session, because you are really driving the bus. And so, the interesting thing for me has been that I've been doing feminist coach certification and equity certification, feminist coach certification, with your friend Kara Loewentheil, while I was doing this. I thought; oh, I'll do Anchored for my own personal work, and I'll do this feminist coaching certification for my business; they worked so well together.

And so, when I would hear, in one sense, you know, a feminist coach cocreates or really creates agency and autonomy with your client, the best way I was learning to do that was to go in. In that embodied space, you literally can witness, you can listen, and you know that not only do you not know what's right for them, they absolutely do know what's right for them.

And I think you can only find that in an embodied, like in a presence, where you're not in your head, your ego’s not saying; I need to get them to a resolution. I need to show everybody on the call that I'm good at this. That is not the way to give agency to another person. So, it was such a beautiful marriage for me, of these feminist ideas that you brought to us, some that I was learning in other places, and then also, the embodiment piece. Just next level stuff.

Victoria: I love that. That's so beautiful. Yeah. And I love what you brought in there about agency, and about recognizing that our clients are really the ultimate authority on what's right for them. And I definitely, when I was dysregulated in my nervous system, I wasn't able to support that. Yeah. I was telling stories about their lives, and that's not feminist. It's not loving. It's not kind, right? I didn't know I was doing it, right? So, I can give myself the grace there. I had no clue that’s what I was up to.

Tobi: Me either. Like, that's been the next level. Like, I could hear when other coaches, who I knew were right to say; hold on, don't jump in. I know you know what you think is the right idea, but let them come to it. I got it, You know, as we say as coaches, like got it intellectually. Like, it didn't resonate, I didn't understand it, it didn't click at the same level, when I was just in my head.

But when you go in, when you fully embody this practice and this approach, even just the tools of knowing when I'm dying to say something like, I can use the ‘this is my arm’. Like, I could be under the table just like rubbing my arm, or just going back in the body. Just those simple little tools that you can just use to be like; don't say anything. Rub your arm. Listen, smile. Get back with them. Move back into the body.

It's just brilliant, and it's not hard. But we just didn't know. We don't learn… If we could just have this as our education, as children, instead of the things we learn, we would have a completely different world; we really would. Yeah.

Victoria: Great.

Erin: Yeah, and I just want to say, too, I totally agree with what you said, Tobi. And even, especially with kids, like, teaching our children to do this, and we've come from so many generations that have not, is completely life changing. Being able to teach kids, you know, how to regulate their emotions, even though the adults around them aren't able to. It's just  really powerful.

Even using some of Vic’s tools, which have been so helpful. Like just, you know, touching the fingers. Doing that with my four-year-old daughter, I mean, it helps. It really does. And, it's those little things. Because bringing in the scientific piece of it is huge, because so many people think I don't want to teach that to my kid, or I don't want to do it, because it's too out there. It’s too woo.

But really? Because there's also some scientific evidence of our nervous system. And I think, just bringing that piece into it, because we try to really compartmentalize our lives. But last I checked, our brain goes with us, like all those places. So, it's kind of like, how do you really compartmentalize when you're living your life as a whole? It doesn't make sense when you really look at it.

So, having those tools, like you all were talking about and that Vic has taught us, really helps to just show up and be able to level up yourself, personally, and also level up yourself as a coach. Yeah.

Tobi: That reminds me, I'll jump in real quick. Something just to add to what Erin said. So, I have a daughter who's 17, and she's a… I don't know if this means anything to y’all, well, some of it will. She's a Cancer. She's an Enneagram Two. She's like, a lover. She's emotional. And I'm like this Aquarius, hard driving, Enneagram Eight.

And so, the interesting thing, she's been my greatest teacher, honestly, in life. And she, from the time she was really young, has had these self-soothing techniques. Like, one of them, she would rub her leg up and down your leg, if she was cuddling you to go to sleep. And then, she learned… My husband hated it, it drove him crazy. So, she learned to rub her leg on her own leg, which is kind of like the ‘feeling your arm’.

I always knew she did that, but it didn't really resonate. And then over the years, she would always say, “Mom, I want to tell you this, but I don't want you to fix anything. I just want you to listen.” Or, basically she was saying “witness”.

And so, after learning a lot of this, it really connected a lot of dots for me as a parent. Because children do know, before we teach them, you know, or socialize them in the way of the world, a lot of times they have this innate ability to have so much wisdom that we don't even know what it's about.

I've loved connecting the dots with her, and understanding, and almost I smile, you know, a lot when I'm doing these practices, because it makes me think of her. And how wise she's been, from like a little bitty toddler to know exactly how to calm her nervous system. So, it's been really interesting to connect the dots there.

Victoria: I love that. And I love thinking about breaking these intergenerational long-standing habits of being disembodied, right, as people in the world. And then, raising a generation for whom it is okay to be embodied. It is okay to show up with and for your nervous system, and your inner children. It's magical. So good. Yeah.

So, how else are the tools, that you've been learning in Anchored, supporting you in your business?

Erika: I think for me, understanding the non-duality of acceptance, and still being proactive and doing something about the things that are going, has a big shift. Because I think, intellectually I know that you can accept things and still act on them.

But I think in an embodied way, there was too much judgment to actually really be into, like; I can truly accept, and that doesn't mean that I won't do anything about it. Or, I can be active and proactive, and really coming from a loving place. And not because it's broken and needs to be fixed. It's not okay. It's not good enough.

Like, I was not able to juggle those two balls at the same time with, you know, grace. It was like one or the other, kind of.

Victoria: Yeah. Could you, I mean, we all know what you're talking about. But could you give an example for people who are like; wait, the non-duality of acceptance.

Erika: I mean, non-duality is just that, you know, two things can coexist at the same time, even though they seem opposite. So, for me, acceptance, at that moment in my life or for a long time in my life, was the opposite of being active to create change. Because if you accepted something that meant it was good, it was done, you didn't to do anything about it.

But I've learned, and now I've embodied, that I truly know inside that I can accept, and from that place, I can still make change. And what shifted that for me, was the somatic practice. That helped my body understand what that meant. Because intellectually, I don't think I could understand it. It was like, there was dissonance there.

But when I could meet myself in agitation, when I can meet myself in sadness, my brain was like; okay, that's accepting how you're feeling now. And once you've connected, you’ve felt, you've been with this for a moment, then you can make a choice to move and pivot in a different direction.

And it doesn't mean that you're rejecting your sadness. It doesn't mean that you're pushing down your anger. It doesn't mean that you're pretending it's okay, and it didn't exist. It means that this is going on, this is what it is. Okay, I can see it, I can feel it, I can be with it. And, when I'm ready, I can take another step in another direction.

So, learning that with my emotions, I was able to put it on all sorts of other things that I might have had trouble to bring acceptance in, and then to make a change. Does that make more sense?

Victoria: Yeah, completely. Yeah, I was picturing people who are listening who are like; what on earth is that?

Erika: Sorry, yogi over here. Non-duality…

Victoria: No, but we talk about this in Anchored all the time. And I think that helps us… That framework, for how we live our lives and how we somatically relate to ourselves, for me, has helped me to have more acceptance of my clients when there's some part of me that's like; oh, my God, no, don't do that. Like, you're gonna date him again? Like, what do you… C’mon… Aargh! Right? Like, you're gonna do this in your business? And I get to just accept that that's a part of my brain, because that's the brain’s job. And from that acceptance, I can really honor it, respect it, see that it's trying to protect me. And with that energetic, can help it to calm, right?

Instead of, even five years ago, when I would reject that part outright. Because then, I'm getting in the pool with a client, which of course is not helpful, right. But yeah, that's such an [crosstalk].

Erika: And all this, and for the client, as well. Truly be like; okay, that's what they need right now. Like, this is where we're going right now. And not like, internally fighting to kind of direct them where you think they should be going. Just showing up with more acceptance of their path, their journey, and what they need to experience in this moment. So, then, we can do something else later, but…

Victoria: Right, it's the opposite of that fixer energy. How is… that such a core trait of codependent thinking. How is that showing up for you all in your coaching or in your business?

Tobi: It's really showing up in my business with my team. So, the last, well really, since I went through master coach training, and came back and did my project from that, which is going on two years, now. But it was all, I mean, it's been like, in the midst of this pandemic that I've been working on all of that. After I came out of master coach training, and you know what that's like, for sure. But I was really told, like; you're never going to really create what you want in life and business, until you're willing to get out of the way and let your team fail.

Like, you've gotten really good at failing, but you won't let your team fail. And so, that swooping-in fixer energy shows up so much, especially if you've kind of come from this, like bootstrapping your business, because you had to early on. And then, you hire people, and you're like, now you're supposed to get out of the way. Like, you can't just flip that switch.

So, it's helped me so much in that, not only accepting people, accepting their ideas, not fixing things, and really also being able to be supported. Because there's like a mind thing that happens. When you go from feeling like it's your job to be responsible for everybody, and you want to shift and let other people support you. There's like, for me, there was guilt. There was I felt lazy, I should be doing more, I'm supposed to lead.

And I didn't understand that this was leading. Hiring the best people and getting out of the way, investing in them, nurturing them, providing coaches for them, but I don't have to be the coach. So, just all of that, like, shift in my roles and how I wanted to support.

I think for me, the biggest thing is the receiving. Because I had so much fixer energy, and my mom's such a fixer, it was really how I was taught kind of to love other people, I guess. Which, obviously, is codependency. So, learning sometimes that either there's not a problem, or even if there is, it doesn't have to be your problem to fix.

And you can also receive, not only money, but support, and ideas, and collaboration. So, I guess the easiest way to say it, is I really created a culture, over the last year, year and a half, of agency and co-creation with my team. That's so different from the proving and fixer energy that I had tried to build a business with for years, that just never really worked.

The culture we've created is unbelievable. Like, I can't even believe it. But you can't create that top-down, it can only be co-created with people that are having agency, that do get the benefit of feminist thinking. And so, that has been huge for me.

Maybe the person that needed to change the most, obviously, was me. So, any level of embodiment, and change, and tools to not move into fixer mode, have just been highly instrumental in that process.

Victoria: Yeah, I love that, and I love that you're calling out how somatic that process has to be. Because I remember telling myself so many times; stop fixing, stop fixing, stop… Really working just thought work on it. But the part of me, the protector part, that was like; if you stop fixing you will die.

Tobi: Exactly. You will go out of business. They'll make too many mistakes. Who's gonna bring in the money. The clients will leave. Someone's gonna get mad. What if they're not perfect? What if they don't say it the way you would say it? All that stuff comes into your head; it reeks. I mean, it moves you right into fight-or-flight. For me, like, fight probably more than flight, instead. Anger’s so easy for me to access. And anger is never the emotion that I want to create from, ever.

I want to create from compassion, or curiosity, or collaboration, or which I would call, like connection. And I think without the somatics, you tend to disconnect when you're in your head. And so, when you embody that, and you allow those emotions, and you get some perspective, then I think you can truly connect with other people at a different level. So, I would call that really up-leveling my leadership skills, is what I would call that.

Victoria: Ooh, I love that. Yeah. And for true leadership, in my opinion, you have to be in a regulated state. We can't leave, if we're outside of ventral vagal; that looks like a hot mess.

Tobi: Yes. And so many people are trying to do that, because they think that's where they're supposed to lead from. Like, it's supposed to be from power, and hierarchy, and their responsibility. And a really good leader, honestly, learns how to not only regulate themselves, but hold space for other people to show up, and other people to shine, actually.

For those of us who are always saying, I want more freedom, and I want more time in my life, yet we bring people on and don't get out of the way. Like, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, right? The only the way I have been successful at this, is this somatics and embodiment practice. It's the only way that it's really worked for me.

Victoria:  Likewise. Yeah.

Tobi: So, thank you for that. What a gift.

Victoria: My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Jenn, anything to add there?

Jenn: I know for me, for a fixer energy with clients looked a lot like, “should.” When is she going to get this? How many times do we have to say it? Just really allowing them to have their own timeline. And allowing a call to not have to look like something. That it can look like whatever it ends up looking like. You know, heaven, Buddha, the universe, only knows what they're going to get out of it. And really, just trusting that.

So, trusting holding space for myself. Trusting holding space for them. And not feeling like it should look like something, or it has to look like something. Or, like; I have to fix this, that it's not perfectly wonderful exactly as it is. So, being able to not feel like I had to jump in and do that fixing, has just been so freeing for me. And I'm sure it's been framed for my clients, too.

Erin: Definitely not fixing. And for sure, I think I mentioned this yesterday on our last Anchored call. But really giving permission to our clients. Permission to just be their whole beautiful, messy selves. We all are, right? Really allowing them to feel and to process through. Because who am I to interfere in their process?

Like I just want to be, you know, the tour guide. I'm not here to lift their leg each step of the way. You know, they're really there to explore. So, really giving them permission to show up, and giving myself permission to show up, as myself.

So, when a client does see something that feels almost triggering for me, allowing myself permission to say, “Okay, I see what's happening here,” but I'm still able to compassionately see it and hold space for my client. That's invaluable.

Victoria: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Something that just popped into my head, is how much my own codependency, perfectionism, and people-pleasing showed up in the sales process, and it will…

Erika: I was just going to talk about sales and money.

Victoria: Yeah, go on then.

Tobi: Yeah, go Erika.

Erika: Yeah, I was just going to say, that the more I charged, the more I came with a fixer energy. The more I felt the pressure to have them totally transform their life, like, the more I put that pressure on myself and on them, because it had to be worth what they were paying, in some way. So, I had to fix all the things for them.

Instead of giving them the rein to be like; okay, like, there you go; in your own time, in your own way. Like Erin was saying, I'll be the tour guide, I'll maybe make a suggestion, but it's up to you. Right? I was taking it on me to transform their life, because I felt that for this price ticket like I better deliver something out of this world.

So, the fixer energy was very there with the money. The more I charged, the more I felt like I needed to fix all the things for them.

Tobi: Yeah, I definitely see that, too. It's almost like that idea of the more skin in the game, as they say, the more you have to, again, move into proving energy. For me, on the sales side, I've always bumped up against a lot of things that felt really icky. And now, we're hearing a lot of people talk about more bro and unethical things.

So, it's kind of at a tipping point, or it's moving towards one right now, which has been refreshing I think, out in the business world. But there was definitely some an out-of-alignment happening in the sales process for me.

One of the times that you coached me was about money, something I've been working on, and so apparent to me as I grow my business. I have had a seven-figure business for a while, but I don't ever move out of this like $1-$2 million range. And so, I really started noticing that it didn't feel safe for me to make more money, in any way.

It felt unsafe in all sorts of ways. Everything from having to show up in a different way. I mean, it definitely moved into proving, but also just receiving, and is that okay? And, how does that feel ethically? That process was so helpful.

And when I combined it with some of the other coaching that I'm doing, like equity centered work, what I really started to understand, is when I pair the somatic work with coaching that says, you know; Tobi, it's helpful for you to make more money, because you can make a difference with that money. We may not want corporations having more money, but individuals with this kind of value system and this kind of perspective, having more money is actually an important thing that we can do in life to make change.

And so, hearing that motivated me. But kind of like we've talked about with other things, just having those thoughts didn't get me there, alone. I had to create safety. This is still a work in progress, I'm not there yet. I'm at the beginning of this journey. But I have to consistently create safety, for me to receive more money, and for me to show up in a way that I can make change.

And I've really felt it since, I mean, a lot of this journey started back at George Floyd. But everything that happens, including Roe vs. Wade, knowing in my gut, that I play a role in this, and that I'm supposed to show up at a different level in this, and it's safe to do this. But we may need money, or we may need to receive other things, to be able to do this work.

Gosh, that is the trip on your nervous system, to put all that together, truly. And so, I don't know any other way than to go in and regulate to be able to get there. And gosh, I feel like I'm doing it constantly these days. So, like, I don't know if it'll get easier at some point. I don't know. You tell me, Vic. But like, that's my awareness right now.

My state, and my willingness to receive, and all this alignment, and my values, all of it is coming together. And it feels like a whole other level of showing up than I've been able to do in the past. I don't even have words to articulate it very clearly yet, because it's so new to me. But I know it was a safety issue that was causing the problem.

And so, now, I'm kind of trying to combine the thoughts and the feelings together to figure out how to move forward. But yeah, it's big. It's a really big thing.

Victoria: I think you were crystal clear.

Tobi: Sometimes when I’m a work in progress I end up talking about it. I'm like, did that make any sense at all? Are people like; what is she like…? That's what it feels like to be in my head. And, I hate that I invite y'all in there sometimes. But it starts to make sense when I bring the body to the table, as well.

Victoria: Yeah, agreed. I mean, if we’re not regulated… You know, you talked about creating safety in your nervous system to be able to receive, that was such a huge part of my journey. Because I was always so protected by being the giver, the fixer, the savior, the saint, the martyr.

I'll take care of you. It's okay, I got it. Don’t worry about it, I don't need help carrying all these groceries up the stairs. I'm fine, I'm cool, I'm cool. Don't look at me, look at the part of me that is the façade. That is me looking at you, because I'm in service to you. Because oh my god, don't look at me, then you'll find out that I'm unworthy of love. And then, Holy shit. I'll die cold and alone on a mountaintop. But all of that, in like two seconds.

Tobi: Yeah. And, combining that with your work in the world. I mean, that's what lights me up; money doesn't light me up. You know, doing work in the world does light me up. But let's just be clear, money can be an amazing tool for doing work in the world. And if we don't feel safe receiving more of it, then we will potentially shut down our capacity for doing other work in the world.

Money's not everything, but it actually makes a difference. And sometimes people just need money. They don't necessarily need one more hands-on person, or one more person thinking they know how to solve a problem. They need support in other ways. And so, I know it has to be a part of my journey and my story. So, yeah, I will continue to work on receiving more, but it feels really… It's wild. It's a journey.

Victoria: Yeah. And it's interesting somatically, the other side of receiving is allowing it to flow through you, so stepping out of a scarcity mindset and into true abundance. So, that we can be good stewards. Yeah, good stewards of the money that flows through our practices.

And you know, I donate to Equality Federation, The Bridge of Life, so many places that I've seen a good work on the ground, that I stand by, that is aligned with my values.

Tobi: Same for us; Girls, Inc., Trevor Project, ACLU. Like, all the places that we give money. I mean, just thinking of how beautiful and powerful that is, that if you can be the conductor of that energy, of the channel of that energy, and create like this funnel, or this tap, for more to flow through you, to those places that make a difference.

That feels, oh my gosh, so beautiful. Like, it kind of gives me chills. It’s what we were probably, really going for, when we were trying to be the martyr. But that energy stopped with us, instead of flowing through us. It's a nuance and it's a shift. But it's yeah, it's huge. Yeah.

Victoria: Oh, just letting that settle.

Tobi: I mean, honestly, it is. Yeah, it's really big.

Victoria: Yeah. What comes up for the rest of youse?

Jenn: I've noticed that my sales process has changed, I don't even like calling it that. But when someone's interested in learning about what coaching would be with me, that's changed a lot in Anchored. And one thing that I'm so grateful that I learned during Anchored, is that we have more than one inner child; that there are children in there.

And what I noticed a lot in my discovery calls, consult calls, whatever you choose to call them, is that sometimes one of those were showing up. You know, maybe it was my insecure 13-year-old that just wanted to be liked. Or, maybe it was, you know, whomever, and just being able to attend to that part of me, before I got into the discovery call, allowed my adult self to show up.

And so, that was going to be in greater service of me and the potential client. So, that was really, really huge. Just learning that we've got more than one little kid in there, and how to take care of them before the call, then the adult could show up. It was just such a cleaner, freer process for me. And so, I had a discovery call this morning. And when that appointment popped up on my phone, my central nervous system, just as kind of like; ach, you know, how's it gonna go? What's it going to be like?

But I can tap into that, and just soothe myself, and remind myself, and my animal and my mammal, that it's going to be fine. It's going to be good. I'm just going to show up, and it's going to be wonderful. I'm going to meet this person and see if we would be a good fit. And, if I could serve them. So, it's just really changed being able to incorporate that somatic part, and learning that there are inner children in there, and how they need to be loved and tended to and taken care of.

So, that it is my 48-year-old, more, you know, confident self that’s showing up and not someone else. That's been really huge in my sales. And so, then I show up cleaner. I had a great call this morning, it was wonderful, you know. And if she chooses to work with me, wonderful. If she doesn’t, totally fine. I don't take it personally. I don't take it personally during the call. I don't take it personally after the call.

Which is then, huge, because I want to show up in that energy for myself. Because I want it to be a positive experience. And, I want it to be a positive experience for them. So, just somatics and Anchored, in general, has been huge for my comfort level in selling.

Victoria: I love that.

Erin: I was gonna say, too, I've been so concerned about being right for one person, like when you get on consult. You want to be right for that one person, but by not being right for that one person, I can be right for so many other people. That, just kind of remembering that, is huge.

I'm not for everybody, and thank goodness. I don't have enough of me to go around. So, it wouldn’t work anyways. But if someone doesn't sign up, or it doesn't resonate for you, for whatever reason, if it just doesn't work, that's okay. That's because there's also another way, and that's so beautiful.

When someone comes to me, I want them to feel like, I think Emily Dickinson says, in one of her poems, “I find it shelter to speak to you.” I love that phrase. Like, that's how I want my clients to feel. And that's how I want myself to feel.

I want to feel sheltered when I'm talking to myself. So, being able to really do that, and not worrying about so much the consult and you know, if they're not going to like the price, whatever. It's like you can just, you can just be it's okay.

Erika: One thing that resonated for me, in both what Jenn and Erin said, was that consult, that first call, and the idea of; are we a good fit? For me, before, it was not even a question if they were a good fit for me. Like, it was are you happy enough with me to work with me? It was one way, right? And now it's like, it means something different.

Really figuring out, are we actually a good fit? And, if I do think that you are not a good fit for me, it has nothing to do with you. It's not like you are not, I learned it from both sides, right? It's just like, I don't provide the best thing you need. You need someone different that's gonna give you something different.

Or, I'm really not vibing for some reason. There's something there that I'm not going to be my best; it's not working. So, it's not like they're not good enough to be a client. It's not, I'm not good enough to be their coach. It's really more like, both ways. Are we an actual fit?

And although I would say those words in the past, they weren't as true, I guess. Like, let's see if we're a good fit. Like that was not…

Victoria: It's so different to feel it, right? That good fit-iness. As a somatic…

Erika: I’ve coached clients before that I didn't quite feel. I was like; this is gonna be hard. Like, yeah, but I went for it anyway, right? And not from like, a challenge, up-leveling myself as a coach. From like, oh, like, I don't feel… There's something you can't quite put your finger on it, but it doesn't feel right.

Victoria: Right. Right. Right. Seeking that... For me, it was seeking validation. Because every person who said yes, I was like; ah, I am valid. I am a coach. I am good enough. I'm a good enough practitioner, etc. Yeah. Which I mean, we talk so much in Anchor about interdependence, right? Really honoring each of our autonomy, and coming together with mutuality and reciprocity.

And that's what I'm hearing in this whole process, right? We can come into interdependence with our clients, instead of that codependent, grasping, validate me energy. It's a beautiful place to be. Much more better, much more beautifuler, in fact. Much more beautifuler, yeah.

I want to honor it y’all’s time, and so, anything you want to say to coaches who are wondering if this is the next step for them? If this is important work.

Jenn: I think it's very important work. I think, I got into this both for personal reasons and professional reasons. And it gave me so much more, in all the levels, both what I learned, things I could share with my clients, how I show up to myself. I am, in the best way, a very different person than when I started Anchored. And like Tobi said, I'm a work in progress. You know, there is no finish line, and there is no done. But man, this was one of the best things.

My round of Anchored ended yesterday. And after the last call, I just went to my wife and I said, “This was the best money that I have ever spent in my entire life.” And, it was no exaggeration. I mean, so many calls, were worth the investment, I mean, hands down. So, it absolutely is worth it.

Especially if you're a coach, because it will change your professional life, it will improve your personal life. And I could go on ad nauseam about it, but I'm really truly so grateful for the container that Vic creates, and the space that she creates, and how we can do the things. So, I can't recommend Anchored enough, especially if you're a coach.

Victoria: Thank you, Jenn.

Erin: Yeah, especially… I feel like I have my fanny pack, and all the supplies are just in there. I have so much knowledge that I have learned from this course. And you clearly have dedicated so much time, and work, and energy, and tears, and laughter, you know, joy.

You have put so much work into this, and it shows. Like, the content is just invaluable. Because the thing is, you're not just in the program and the content ends, right? I mean, with everything you’ve created, with all the videos, I mean, people would be blown away at the amount of information we receive, but it's incredible.

So, now, I have a whole library of Vic, and somatic work, and all of these things at my disposal as a coach; are you kidding me? That’s perfect. So, just having the resources, I think, for me, has been one of the really super helpful things. And, I'm so glad to have them to continue to like go back to.

Tobi: I think for me, what I really noticed, was that it's so easy to, you know, pedestal your teachers, and your people you've learned from. And that was really something that I've seen happening for myself and others, in the training that I was originally given in life coaching.

You and I've talked about this Vic, even just one-on-one. You know, there's so much more to coaching than just thought work. Thought work’s a beautiful thing, but there's so much more.

So, what I felt like for years, although it was life changing, and I mean major life changing to learn thought work, it was kind of like a one-trick pony for me, for a while. And what I noticed, is me almost acting in a codependent way with the people that I was learning from there.

And so, I think this work, not only address’ things like safety, and trauma, and inner child, and all the things that we don't really understand how they're impacting, how we're showing up. But it also helped give me back my own authority and agency; to know how to use tools, to release tools, to release people from those pedestals, to go my own way, to have my own thought leadership about this stuff.

I think that's just a whole other level, that we don't even realize how much we've been delegating sort of our authority to the people. And I think that's true, in general, I mean, in the world. Like, we all go around delegating our authority, if we're not paying attention to an author or a teacher, or whatever, politician, anybody.

And so, I think when you do this work you come back to yourself, and you go to the next level of trusting yourself, trusting your knowing, trusting your intuition. And having the courage to listen to that, and to release things. That's like a whole other level, for me, of growth. So, that is the reason I would recommend it to coaches. You have spent plenty of time making other people your guru. And now, it's time that you turn back to yourself and become that authority, and learn to trust yourself.

Victoria: Oof. Amen to that, and hallelujah.

Erika: Yeah. Yeah, and I agree with everything everybody said. But Tobi, that idea for me, is kind of where I was going, in my mind, but for ourselves. If you're still on this call, if you've listened to this whole episode, you know, like, we don't need to convince you. Like, you know, there's worth, otherwise, you'd be gone by now. If you're still here, deep down, you know.

So, it's about trusting yourself and trusting the feeling that you get, like, something pulls me here. And not letting your self-doubt, not letting your self, you know, critic, you're overwhelm, get in the way of that. And I think, I don't know, Vic, if you remember when I first decided like; oh, I'm gonna do this, like literally panicking…

Victoria: Uh-hu, I do remember.

Erika: making a decision. So, do it anyway. You know, do it anyway. Like, if you feel the pull… No matter, if you feel also fear, if you feel also, you know, doubt, like remembering again, that those two things can coexist. This could be something very, very important for you. And maybe, if you're scared, that means that there's a lot of growth here. And maybe, if you're doubtful, you know, there's things to work on.

And I think there's something beautiful in that. Taking that agency for yourself and learning to trust, but taking that first step into looking into these kinds of work, in this community, in this program, and what you have to offer.

Victoria: Thank you, thank you. So, my loves, I know everyone listening wants to follow you, and learn more about you, and get your freebie. Where can they do that?

Tobi: For me, it's on Instagram® @TobiFairley or TobiFairley.com. It's T-O-B-I F-A-I-R-L-E-Y. If you want to come see the pretty, pretty interior design work we do, mixed with a whole lot of awesome coaching for creatives, you're gonna love Instagram. Also, I’m on TikTok®, that's kind of new and fun. But I’m enjoying it.

Victoria: Oh, look at you, how modern!

Tobi: I know, aren’t I? So progressive. Yeah, so, that's fairly new, but it's really fun. And I will say, that TikTok audience is fun; it's a lot more open. If you kind of want to just show up as your badass self, like that's kind of a fun place to do it. It's like a young, progressive group. So yeah, look for me on TikTok, too.

Victoria: Would you say tick tock is where you can find the kids these days?

Tobi: For sure. Everything my daughter learns is from TikTok, the news, the politics, all the things.

Victoria: That’s frightening.

Tobi: But it’s not just children, there's a lot of people. But what I love about it, which could be a whole podcast in itself, is I think it's more accepting of the real you. I feel like Instagram is like the place to create the perfection and the highlight reel. And I think people don't really like that as much on TikTok. They're like; yeah, no. This is not real, like show me the real stuff. Show me the messy.

So, I’m kind of enjoying being messy over on TikTok. If you want to see the messy me, and like the failing your way to success me, then join me on TikTok.

Victoria: Thank you, Tobi.

Tobi: Welcome.

Erika: I have been thinking about doing TikTok, and I've been looking from the sidelines, so maybe, maybe.

Tobi: Come on, it’s messy. Come on over.

Erika: People can find me on Instagram @Erika.Belanger, or the podcast is On and Off Your Mat podcast. And my website is just my name, too, Erika Belanger. There is a ton of freebies there. There's a self-care quiz. There's meditations to support you. There's a stress video, as well, like a little stress training. So, there's all sorts of things that people can go and use as tools.

Victoria: Thank you.

Erika: Jenn, go ahead.

Jenn: My website, Facebook®, and Instagram, is all my name; J-E-N-N  B- A-R-O-N. And my podcast is, Reset Your Mindset.

Victoria: Love that. Erin?

Erin: And, I'm Erin. So, my website is TriageCoaching.com. Then, you can also find me on Instagram. But maybe, I will do this TikTok, because I'm all about decreasing the perfectionism, and increasing the realism, so that sounds good.

Victoria: I love that.

Tobi: We should have a podcast, I don't know, like support group. Regulate your nervous system before you go on TikTok. Yeah, TikTok support group. I was thinking about the fact that I didn't mention my podcast, which is the Design You Podcast. That's why I said podcast, but we definitely need tools for regulating our nervous system before Tik Tok. Which we have from Anchored. So, if you want to become a TikTok star you might want to also join Anchored.

Victoria: Oh my god, that is the last thing I expected to hear, at this hour. I am goddamn delighted. Oh, you all are so fabulous. And I want to thank you, from the bottom of my heart, not just for joining me in this conversation, but for being part of Anchored. And being open, and candid, and vulnerable, and sharing your hearts, and letting me coach you, and being such beautiful supports for each other in the community.

I am endlessly grateful and I bow deeply to each and every one of you, and I thank you.

Thank you so much for listening, my love. I hope this conversation was as supportive, fun, and delightful for you to listen to, as it was for us to have. It was really so much fun. And again, so inspiring to see the transformation that these beautiful coaches have made in their own lives, in their businesses, with their clients, for their clients, for their relationships, for every aspect of their lives from having been a part of Anchored.

If you want what they’re having, you’re not going to want to miss this opportunity to join us in Anchored. The next group is filling up fast. It always sells out each and every time. So, if there’s been a little voice in the back of your head that’s like; you know what? You should check out that Anchored thing. Then, this would be a pretty darn good time to listen to that voice, and check it out.

Head on over to VictoriaAlbina.com/anchored to learn all about it, to apply now, the application only takes a few minutes. I’ve heard many, many times that filling out the application is like really cool journaling exercises, so why not? My team will then be in touch to set up a phone call, and we’ll take it from there.

I really look forward to having you join us in the Anchored familia, to having you on the podcast someday, and to spending six months coaching you. Not just every week live, but also in the Slack® group each and every day, for six months.

Like, how amazing is that? You can get coached every weekday. It’s like Wednesday morning and you get in a fight with your boss. Or, a client no-show’s. Or, your partner says something and your nervous system gets triggered, and you don’t have to go it alone; for six months.

You just open the Slack, connect with the community, get support from others, and coaching from me. How amazing is that?! It’s super amazing. It’s incredible and amazing. And, I can’t wait to have you join us; VictoriaAlbina.com/anchored

Alright, my beauties, let’s do what we do. Gentle hand on your heart, should you feel so moved. And remember, you are safe. You are held. You are loved. And, when one of us heals, we help heal the world. Be well my darling. See you in Anchored. Talk to you soon.

If you've been enjoying the show and learning a ton, it's time to apply it with my expert guidance, so you can live life with intention, without the anxiety, overwhelm and resentment, so you can get unstuck. You're not going to want to miss the opportunity to join my exclusive, intimate group-coaching program. So, head on over to VictoriaAlbina.com/masterclass to grab your seat now. See you there; it's gonna be a good one!