Ep #210: Getting Anchored with Charlene Lam

This is Feminist Wellness, and I’m your host, Nurse Practitioner, Functional Medicine Expert, and life coach, Victoria Albina. I’ll show you how to get unstuck, drop the anxiety, perfectionism, and codependency so you can live from your beautiful heart. Welcome, my love; let’s get started.

Hello, hello, my love. I hope this finds you doing so well. This week I am beyond delighted to introduce someone who is just so magnificent, and that is, Charlene Lam. She is a certified grief coach, a curator, a speaker, and the founder of the Grief Gallery. She does amazing work to support her clients, and all of us whose lives she touches around the theme of grief.

She's going to be coming back on the show in a couple of weeks to talk specifically about grief. And I just can't wait because she's such a phenomenal human, a great coach. I'm so excited to share her and her amazingness this with you.

This week she'll be joining us on ­­Feminist Wellness to talk about her experience in Anchored. I love sharing the transformational stories of how people's lives change from before Anchored. Before realizing the depths of their emotional outsourcing, their detachment from their bodies, their desire and need for more embodiment, to going through the program learning these skills. Learning the somatic or body-based tools that I teach, learning thought work.

Charlene came in knowing thought work, she's a certified life coach; she's amazing. But you know, in Anchored we take the classic thought work you may have heard from others and we deepen it by adding the nervous system in. And so, that was new for Charlene and she'll be talking about how exciting that was.

I share these stories from Anchored because when I was in the depths of my emotional outsourcing, when codependent, perfectionist and people-pleasing thinking ruled my life, I didn't see an out. I didn't have people in my life who are modeling healthy relationships, healthy ways of being, healthy ways of relating to self and the world.

And so, I'm sharing these stories to inspire you. To show you what's possible when you do this work of connecting in with yourself in these new and powerful ways. So, I could go on and on for like hours about how amazing Charlene is, how incredible her transformation is. And instead, I'm going to hush my little buttons and pass the mic.

Victoria Albina: Hi, Charlene. I'm so excited to be here with you today.

Charlene Lam: I’m so excited to be here, Vic. Yay.

Victoria: Yay. Will you start us off by telling us your name and your pronouns? Where you live? And what lights you up? What are you passionate about?

Charlene: I'm Charlene Lam. I live in Lisbon, in Portugal currently. I'm originally from New York City. And what lights me up; delicious food, sunshine, sardines. That's partially why I'm here in Portugal. And petting flowers, like running my hands over their leaves. It makes for walks with me really slow.

Victoria: Yeah. I love that. I mean, we're all about the slow around here, right? That's how we heal. That's how we grow. So, you do incredibly amazing work in the world. Will you tell the good people about what you do?

Charlene: That's so kind. Well, yeah, I work with grief. I'm a certified grief coach, and I'm the curator of the Grief Gallery. I take a really creative, accessible approach to working with grief, particularly death related grief. So, come over, coach with me on Zoom. Or, I’m launching in-person coaching here in Lisbon.

Victoria: Cool. That's awesome. Worth a flight, for sure.

Charlene: Sunshine, sardines, and talking about our dead parents.

Victoria: Come on! The trifecta. Come on. You're a triple threat. I love it. So, my love you were recently in one of the cohorts of Anchored and I'm curious, why did you decide to join? What interested you about the program?

Charlene: Oh, I felt like my body was craving something like Anchored. As a coach, I knew about thought work. I do a lot of thought work. I do a lot of self-coaching. I get coached a lot. And I thought I had a really good set of tools. I had gotten into coaching and getting coached because I had anxiety that was kind of out of control. And it changed my life.

So, I thought, “Oh, I'm good. I've got these tools.” And then, summer 2022 my body was literally vibrating. There was anxiety that was at a level that I hadn't experienced in years. And I realized my existing toolset, not adequate anymore. I need something else. My body is screaming out for something else. And then, Anchored. Yeah, I saw you doing a presentation about the somatic. What was that presentation about?

Victoria: Somatics for burnout.

Charlene: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, it was perfect. I was so stressed out. I came across one of your webinars that was about somatics and the nervous system. And it was like the universe said, this is actually what you need. So, I booked a call with you and learned more about Anchored. And as in, I'm going to answer the universe when it says, “I hear you screaming for help. And here you go.”

Victoria: Oh, I love that. I love that. What were your favorite takeaways from being in Anchored?

Charlene: I loved realizing that I really could trust my body, and that I could trust myself. I feel like I've already done so much work on getting to a place of unconditional love. On allowing what we don't necessarily want to have in our lives. Right? Losing my mother and dealing with my own grief definitely required that I do that work.

But in Anchored, it was learning these new tools, yes. Or, how to help my nervous system what to do when my body started vibrating, or when things felt stuck. But it was also this validation about how much I could trust my body, and how much I could trust my instincts. And I always knew I had a decent brain, and it was nice to feel that kind of affection for my body, too.

Victoria: Wow, that's so beautiful. Yeah, I love the word affection here. Right? It's a particularly when anxiety is the experience that shows up, it can be so easy to negate our own feelings, to turn away. To say, “Ugh, I just need to be less anxious.” And to stop right into that blame/shame kind of game. And I love affection. Yeah, like there's a tenderness.

Charlene: Oh, you're all about the tenderoni and the tenderness. And so, I didn't realize how much I needed that. I think when you have anxiety, when you have depression, it's really easy to fall into this feeling that, “Oh, my body is broken. My brain is broken. I won't be able to do things the way that other people do.”

And I think there's a lot of being really difficult on ourselves. So, getting to that place of, “Oh, I don't just accept what my brain and my body are doing, but that I actually have affection for it,” it changes that feeling entirely.

Victoria: Ah, wow. Yeah. So, how has this newfound, or deepened, nervous system awareness, capacity to map your nervous system, to use somatic practices, how has this changed your life, your relationships, and in your case, your coaching?

Charlene: I think it changes you on a personal and a professional level to go through Anchored. Because I think personally, it's just a higher degree of self-trust than I ever had on a personal level. I think it's just a higher degree of self-trust than I've ever had before.

And professionally, I think we've talked about how, when you're an entrepreneur, it is so hard on the nervous system, right? You're risking rejection, you're risking humiliation, or whatever comes up for you. And in order to do any of the things that we need to do as entrepreneurs, to test programs, to risk failure, I really do think getting a handle on your nervous system and having the tools to deal with what comes up is so helpful.

I've already seen that having an impact on the way that I talk to people, on how much I put myself out there, and just the way I make offers. I know I have the tools to deal with whatever kind of feelings come up.

Victoria: Wow, that's so powerful. I think for all of us entrepreneurs, whatever field you're in, making offers, particularly when you're new and fresh and saying, “Hi, I’m worth investing in. I'm good at my job,” right? If we're not in ventral vagal, the safe and social part of the nervous system… If we're dysregulated… If we don't know how to get anchored in ourselves and come home to ourselves, it is anxiety making.

Charlene: Yeah, yeah. And you know, in the business world, when they're like, “Charge you're worth,” right? Okay, we both made the same face right then.

Victoria: We're both like that is white settler, colonialist, patriarchal b.s. But cool. Yeah, yeah. Let's complicate that on our next talk, right?

Charlene: But let's talk about outsourcing. Right? We do grapple with that. And even when we talk about value, right? So, really being able to look at that idea of, “Oh, am I looking for proof that I'm good enough for my clients, or for potential clients, or from the response to my social media post, or the comments when I give a talk?”

That's really interesting to be able to really look at that. And I didn't really think of myself as being that codependent before I got to Anchored. I didn't really feel like I've been codependent in my relationships. But it was really interesting to see how there was codependency when it came to my teachers, when it came to authority figures, when it came to what you should be doing as an entrepreneur.

That was really helpful to get insight into where I was codependent when it came to business topics.

Victoria: Yeah. And how has that shifted? Do you feel like you're still showing up in that codependent way, or in perfectionism and people pleasing?

Charlene: No. Something massive has shifted. And I mean, it's massive in what I feel is potential impact. But it didn't feel like one massive shift in the moment. I think it was a series of questions; where I asked in live coaching with you. And then, when I got coached in Slack about my tendency to look for permission and approval from others.

And somehow, just through that process of getting coached on it and examining what I was looking for, what feeling I was looking for, what kind of experience I was looking for, what my body was craving from that. Somehow it shifted where I really do feel like, oh, I can get what I want from teachers and leave what does not apply to me. I can work with teachers that are not exactly my vibe, but I can still learn a lot from them if I want to.

And I think I also got permission, well, from you; not that I needed permission. But you offered it, because I asked for it. To also just not work with teachers that I didn't want to work with. And I think that permission to let that go and say, “Oh, I don't have to be a good student for everything and everyone.” It's totally changed my relationship with that idea of learning and who my teachers are.

Victoria: Ooh, I love that. I think you touched on something important about that permission getting. So, one of the things that's really important to me, from a nervous system standpoint when we're doing this work, is to start by leaning on our maladaptive skills as adaptive. What I mean is, because that didn't really make so much Englishes. What I mean is this: From our emotional outsourcing, we're really good at looking to others to validate us. And so, while we're building that skill, ask for it. Let yourself ask for it. Right?

A woman the other day was like, “You know, I really want to do Anchored, but I feel like I'm doing it for my kids. And I want to do it for me, but I don't feel that.” And I was like, “Kitten, do it for your kids. Join for your kids. Let that skill of putting others ahead of yourself and doing things for others get you in the door of healing. And then, let's rewrite the script. Shift everything in your body. So, by the end, or shoot, by like a month in, you're like, ‘Oh, wait, now I am doing it for me.’”

Charlene: Yes. Well, I think we just think that we need to make it so hard on ourselves, or that we have to do it ourselves. And I think it doesn't have to be that dramatic. The visual that came to mind when you were sharing that, was imagining that you're working on your balance, working on your core, and you're saying, “No, actually don't hold my hand. I’m going to balance all by myself from the start,” right?

Victoria: Just on my pinky toe.

Charlene: Yes, absolutely. “Because I should be able to willpower it. And to take anyone's hand to help steady me as I learn to do this new skill is going to be somehow lesser than.” It's just a steadying hand. It's just a guiding hand.

Victoria: And that points to what we talked about in Anchored and the goal of this work and everything I do, which is that move towards interdependence. So, it's like a sine wave. And we've got codependence: “Somebody has to hold my hand. There's no way that I can do this. I will never be able to do this. I'm insufficient. I'm unworthy. Hold my hand. Hold my hand. I'm going to grab you by the neck.”

And then, in the radical independence of like, “No, I'm a rock. I'm an island. I need no one.” But in middle, there's so much beauty of like, “Yeah, I'm getting my feet beneath me. Hold my hand just a little. Maybe give me an encouraging word. I'll do the same for you.” I don't need it, because we dropped the grasping. But it's darn sure nice to have it.

Charlene: Well, I think the thing about having your hand held is, you know when it feels really good to have your hand held? When you don't actually need it. When you just want it. You know, when you're walking down the street with your sweetie, and you just hold hands.

Not because I don't know how to walk down the street by myself. But I'm also not batting my husband's hand away because I can do it by myself, sir. But I think there's something really gentle and supportive about saying, “You don't what? I know I don't need, necessarily, to have my hand held. But right now, I would like to have my hand held.” And I think that's something very supportive that we can do for ourselves, is to ask for that help.

Victoria: Right. Which is a thing we practice in Anchored. There's a whole channel in our online community… There's two; asking for help in getting love, and then asking for ridiculous help. Do you want to tell folks about those two and what it was like?

Charlene: Well, I think the Asking for Ridiculous Help channel, in the Slack in Anchored, was actually maybe the first channel that I posted in or that I responded to. And I think you posted something about getting llamas?

Victoria: Yeah, I think it was probably… So, Asking for Ridiculous Help is about asking for help for something that you don't actually expect anyone to say yes to. It's just the practice of asking, for the post-er. And then, for the folks in Anchored who reply, it's about saying no, with grace and love. And creating new neuroplasticity around saying no and having that be okay. And actually, in Anchored, having that be celebrated.

So, I posted something like, “Hello, I would like to have 400 llamas in my backyard within the hour. And they need pens and food and sweaters, of course. And of course, a library, because it's the most important place on earth. Who will do this?”

Charlene: Yes. And of course, because the people who are in Anchored are all really empathetic, caring, considerate people. At first, we were like, “Oh, okay, I can't get you 400 llamas, but maybe I can get you 50 llamas.” And, “Well, I can't move out there for six months, but maybe I can manage a month.” Right? And then we realized, “Oh, the purpose of this is to practice saying, “I am not available for that.’”

Victoria: Our favorite.

Charlene: Yes. And having that modeled for us in this approachable, accessible, fun way to say, “No, thank you. I'm not available for this,” and risking, or noticing what that brings up in us, that was so fun.

Victoria: Yeah, and we do. We make everything in Anchored fun because living as an emotional outsourcer sucks.

Charlene: Yeah. No. Laughter. When you're getting into all of the stuff that comes up, body stuff, emotional stuff. I fully believe you have to laugh about it. Like, for grief coaching, somehow, we do a lot of laughing in our sessions.

I love that Anchored had all this laughter kind of sprinkled through it. Because you can't be so deadly serious about this stuff.

Victoria: Come on. I mean, it's serious. But you don't have to be so serious about it.

Charlene: No, then it feels, to me, hard. Then it feels like, homework. Our bodies are slumped down right now.

Victoria: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Charlene: That's not how Anchored feels?

Victoria: No, not at all. It's a super fun community. And speaking of community, I know you loved your fellow Anchored familia, the other sailors on this Anchoring Sea of healing. Tell me about your experience with being part of that group. People get very nervous, Charlene. And they say, “I don't know. I really want one-on-one coaching.” I think there's some hiding there, which is understandable. And yet, people get nervous. “Will they be nice? Will they be kind to me?” Tell us about it.

Charlene:  The people in Anchored are the nicest, most empathetic, kindest people. And I'm not necessarily a joiner; I'm a big introvert. So, I was a little concerned about sharing too much or taking on other people's worries. But I think, somehow, you created this Anchored container that feels safe to share. And sometimes we share some really sensitive and kind of personal things. Somehow, it feels safe to do so.

There's something about knowing that you're in this container, and you're in this space in Anchored, where we've all come together from different walks of life, from different countries, different age groups, to work on ourselves. And having a group of women who are working on themselves cheer each other on is a really magical experience. It's not in a ‘you go girl’ in a really superficial way, it feels so heartfelt.

I really wasn't expecting that. I thought I was going to go in and learn some skills, do my work, do my checklist of practices, of somatic practices, and exercises. But I didn't realize how important that community would be. And we would support each other in different ways. Sometimes it could be just an emoji, or sometimes it could be a full written response.

Sometimes mine were very long. But I loved that there was no expectation to do that. That it really was what we were available for. Because some days, I would really have a heartfelt long response to give someone in support of whatever they were posting about. I would just write that out there, and we would have a really engaging conversation that really deepened my understanding of what we're learning in Anchored.

And other times, I only had capacity to give a heart emoji. I loved that that was enough, too. Just that witnessing and being in the same space together. Because again, as an introvert, I was really worried about giving too much emotionally, and having that freedom to really participate in whatever capacity I had. That was really helpful for me.

Victoria: I love how people make friends for life in Anchored. It's a really beautiful thing. Emotional outsourcing is such an isolating, alone making, thing. It was beautiful. It seems like you made some really good friends on the program, yeah?

Charlene: As an introvert, I was really surprised. Absolutely. Anyone who was in the Anchored cohort, they are welcome to visit me in Lisbon. And next time I go to other people's cities, I'm going to definitely going to contact them. We can give each other a hug, and maybe share coffee. I think there was something really magical about the bonding that can happen when we're doing this work together. When we open ourselves up to each other, not on a surface level, but on a really deep, vulnerable level.

Victoria: And how was getting coached, knowing that everyone else was sort of behind the curtains watching?

Charlene: Well, at first, I was really nervous about getting coached. Because I thought, “Well, I'm a coach, I should be able to do this. I should be able to know this.” And even though I know how valuable it can be to be in a group coaching situation, I've witnessed that myself. And when I do group experiences for grief, I see how powerful that can be.

I was still nervous when I raised my hand that first time. And I think I said something like, “I don't want to snot cry in front of everyone.” But there really was permission from you to go as deep as I wanted, or to stay as surface as I needed in order to feel safe. So, I really appreciated that.

Victoria: It is all about that grounded safety in our nervous system. We can't make real change, particularly not sustainable lasting change. It's a flash in the pan, like, “Okay, I have a new thought. Oh, wait, what was that new thought?” Right? Yeah. So, how was somatic coaching with me different from other coaching you've received or trained in or experienced?

Charlene: Oh, you're so witchy.

Victoria: Thank you.

Charlene: Most of the work that I've done; I've had a lot of therapy. I've had a lot of coaching. That's really more about the thought work aspect of things. Whenever people would ask, “How does that feel in your body? Where is it? What color is it? What shape is it?” My brain could not compute. I didn't know what they were talking about. I could kind of describe it from an intellectual standpoint.

So, entering your witchy, amorphous, warm welcome kind of container for coaching, that was one of my favorite parts of Anchored because it did feel like a very different experience. I was able to feel my body, and feel that connection between what I was thinking and how my body was responding to it.

And even learning to ask my body first and being in a safe enough space to do that, I think that was really a help to shift things for me. And where I think I learned to really feel that safety, not just in what my brain could come up with, but safety in what my body was trying to tell me.

Victoria: Yeah, and that's something people are nervous about, right? Because for so many of us we've locked away our emotions. We're in that functional freeze, where we just can't feel our feelings because of self-loving reasons, right?

Our bodies are protecting us. So, what I'm hearing, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that that was not a skill you had access to before Anchored. And through Anchored, learned to feel into your feelings in your body. Is that true?

Charlene: Yeah. Yeah, I would say the difference is after Anchored, I'm comfortable letting my body lead

Victoria: Ooh, tell me more.

Charlene: I think, before I would always lead with my brain. And then maybe, if my body told me something, if there was something in my stomach or my throat, okay, I would have a think about it. But that idea that, sometimes the body knows more than the brain, and maybe often the body knows more than the brain. That was really helpful.

Gaining that skill in Anchored to say, “Actually, I'm going to check in with my body first,” that was really, really helpful in personal life and also professionally. To say, “What do I want to do for marketing?” And instead of going to the million-and-one things that were in my brain for the marketing options, it was really helpful to be able to check in with my body and say, “Uh-huh, what is it that my heart wants to do? What is it that my arms want to do?”

It's changed how I do content. I lean into video a lot more. It was something that I felt I wanted to do and explore more, but my brain would sometimes say, “Well, you know, that takes a lot of work. Is that really the most prudent way? Shouldn't you be working on your lead magnets first?” And yeah, leaning into what my body told me, “You want to do videos. You want to do a custom video for your client? Go ahead and do it.” And the response has been really great.

Victoria: And what about in your personal life, in relating to your husband and your friends, your family? How have somatics shifted things there?

Charlene: In my personal life, I dance a lot more. I mean, I love the dance parties. That might have been what tipped me into signing up for Anchored in the first place. When you said, “There are dance parties.” Well, I’m in. I’m in. Yeah. I've always loved dancing. But I hadn't realized how long it had been since I just danced around my house.

I've started integrating regular dance parties into my life. And it really is the somatic practice that I enjoy the most. There are like the more spiritual feeling ones, that can be really great for when I'm feeling anxious. I do figure eights. And I do that humming sound, the foghorn sound, and the practices like that. But I dance a lot more.

That feels like such a joyful way for me to integrate that somatic practice into my life. And again, having that permission, where, oh, it's not just because I want to pretend I'm in a music video. It's because this is for my mental and physical health. This is my somatic practice.

Victoria: I love it. I love it. And it's so real. Right? Again, it brings in that levity. Because what are we doing all this healing work for, if not for more joy and more passion and more excitement and more Paula Abdul and more Gloria Estefan on?

Charlene: Like, today. Not like, oh, we will do all this work and get to a point where we experience that joy all the time. No, joy today. Every day.

Victoria: Joy today. Every day. Yeah. Which it's amazing to hear a grief coach… Someone with such a huge loss in your history, and not that long ago in the span of a human life. To say, “No, we've been through it. And we don't have to stay in the old story, mind or body. We can honor it. Hold it. Have affection for it.” To use that beautiful word. Befriend it. Like, not say, “Oof, a parent dying didn't suck.” Come on, that’s terrible.

Charlene: Patently, terrible.

Victoria: And, where's the joy in today? Where's the gratitude? Right? That's presence. That's what presence give us. It’s that gift to become back into this moment, which is the only one we're promised. Right?

Charlene: Absolutely. It is that acknowledging of what's happened to us. It's that awareness of what happened, and how it's impacting us. And it's the allowing, and allowing ourselves to process all those emotions. And having the tools to do that processing for our bodies, and through movement and somatics, as well as through thought work. That pairing of those two modalities, those two approaches, I think, is incredibly powerful.

Victoria: Thank you. So, speaking of allowing, one of the places that folks get stuck coming from emotional outsourcing and somatic self-disconnection is about investing in themselves. Yes, financially, but also time, energy, hope. What would you say to someone who's like, “I can't spend money or any other resource on me. I feel guilt. I feel shame. I feel scarcity. Blah!” What would you say to her?

Charlene: I've spent more money on my mental health and my wellness than I really want to admit. But it's so worth it. I can honestly say that coaching changed my life, and saved my life. And when I learned about Anchored, I immediately knew that this experience, this work with you, this coaching, on a whole new level, would also change my life.

And I can't even imagine not investing in myself. My brain and my body are the only ones I have, at least in this lifetime, depending on what we believe. And I always invest in it. I can't think of any other thing that I would rather spend money on.

Victoria: I’m with you. Yeah, to go a hospice nurse with... You know, like, you can't take it with you. The perfect person, the best shoes and the wine and the buffering and the distraction, none of it moves our lives towards where we want to go. And just see the shifts I've seen in you in this last year has been so, so powerful.

Charlene: Yeah, I think yeah. When you have a loved one die, when you're faced with mortality, other people's and our own, you reevaluate your whole life, right? How do you want to live? How do I want to live? And if there are ways to make that experience of living, every day, and in the long term, better, bigger, more delicious, as I like to say, then I'm all for it. Let's do it.

Victoria: I love that. What would you say to someone who's on the fence who's like, I don't know, should I do this Anchored thing or not?

Charlene: Go ahead and have a chat with Vic. There's nothing to lose. There's so much to gain. Take a chance. Take a chance on yourself. She's very nice. How she is on the podcast, how she is in a webinar, is totally how she is. So, take that chance on you. Not even on her. Take that chance on you.

Victoria: Thank you, Charlene. And thank you so much for your time, for being part of Anchored, for being an inspiration and a model to the good folks listening of what's possible when we attend to ourselves, mind, body and spirit, in new ways.

I know everyone listening wants to follow you and learn more about your grief coaching. Can you tell them how they can do that, please?

Charlene: Sure. It's been my pleasure to be in Anchored, and to work with you and to get to know you. I’m at CharleneLam.com and I'm on Instagram @curating_ grief. On there, you can learn more about the Grief Gallery, about coaching, about my approach to a delicious life after the death of a loved one.

Victoria: Thanks so much for tuning in, my loves. I hope you found Charlene story just as inspiring and beautiful, as amazing, as I did. And I hope you enjoyed getting to know her a bit, too. She is incredible. Her work is stunning. Please do go check it out.

Ahh, if you are loving hearing these stories of transformation... If you're sitting there saying, “I want what she's got. I want what she's having,” you don't have to wait another little moment to join us in Anchored. Anchored is my small-group, intimate, beautiful coaching community. A program in which you work side-by-side with a collective of other women who truly get what you're going through. Who can support you and love you up as you make the kinds of amazing transformations that Charlene made in her life.

In Anchored, I will coach you every single weekday for six months. I'm not kidding. Every week, live on our coaching calls. I'll bring in breathwork thought work, somatic and body-based practices to support you in experiencing your Life, your World, your relationships, yourself, in powerful, new and ever healing ways that are sustainable for the long run.

Head on over to VictoriaAlbina.com/Anchored to learn more and to apply now. I can't wait to welcome you to Anchored.

Alright, my love, let’s do what we do. A gentle hand on your heart should you feel so moved. And remember, you are safe. You are held. You are loved. And, when one of us heals, we help heal the world. Be well, my beauty. I’ll talk to you soon.

If you've been enjoying the show and learning a ton, it's time to apply it with my expert guidance, so you can live life with intention, without the anxiety, overwhelm, and resentment, so you can get unstuck. You're not going to want to miss the opportunity to join my exclusive, intimate group-coaching program. So, head on over to VictoriaAlbina.com/masterclass to grab your seat now. See you there; it's going to be a good one!